New update for friday!

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/11/12/guild-wars-2s-lost-shores-content-primer/  :)

I am a bit worried about the idea of Ascended armor having better stats than Exotic. That could really take a lot of the enthusiasm for the game away. A gear grind is not my idea of fun.

It says 'slightly better' so I expect its not crazy better so people who are interested in it can try for it while everybody else can do what they've been doing no worries. We'll have to see, though I love the idea of being able to run a dungeon constantly until I get truly bored for the day lol

Slightly better is still the start of a treadmill, and is only slightly better until the next thing comes along. Just goes against what they've been advocating for a long time. It speaks ill for the future.

Eh, it doesn't really bother me. Exotic armor is so easy to get (relatively speaking) that anyone who plays a level 80 character for any amount of time will eventually end up with a full set. I'm willing to wait and see what the story is with Ascended armor before deciding on it.

I wish they'd hurry up and release the profession changes already. I'm hoping there's something in those "pages and pages of changes" that makes a class stick out as something I want to play as a main. I mean seriously, I've got 60-something Unidentified Dye in the bank. I can't wait forever!

Suddenly the silhouette on all those "beware of sea monsters" posters appearing around Lions Arch is starting to make sense with that image. Apparently Anet will be addressing Ascended Armour in more detail with a blog post sometime before the event kicks off, so I'll wait until then to form any kind of opinion on the direction the game is taking.

I have to be honest I was one of those that complained about the gear treadmill and progression and all that. After playing GW2 I realize that I need some sort of goal to strive for or I get bored and I actually like having class roles in groups. I think that a lot of other people are realizing this to. There is a lot of people back in Rift and other MMO's I dabble in and they all say they wished for no carrot on a stick and now that they got it they wanted it back lol. I think its part of the feeling of challenge and reward. GW2 I feel like I am just fighting for the sake of fighting in-terms of PVE. GW1 I actually enjoyed hunting down different skills and abilities to make different builds but you don't have that in GW2.

There's a lot to do in GW2 without having to grind for gear improvements or bother with progression goals. I have almost 800 hours played and I have more stuff to do, than I know how to make enough time for. I don't even have 100% map completion yet. I don't like what I'm reading about this new update. Its too soon to jump to conclusions, but based on what I'm reading from fansite blogs, Anet is pulling a reversal on some of their design intentions. Its a very slippery slope and they might lose more players than they're trying to keep, if they "wowify" this game.

Games need some ridiculous grind to keep people happy. I think the Legendary weapons were meant to provide that (the requirements for those are *insane*), but then the gold farmers torched the economy and they became too easy to get. It sounds to me like this new armor is the next obscene grind. It'll probably be better than exotics by a wide enough margin to entice the players who enjoy a grind, or those that absolutely must have the best gear in the game, but not a wide enough margin to force all players into going after it. Obtaining top level items is a cost-benefit equation. Is that 0.5% benefit worth the effort it will take to get it? Are you completely out of other things to do in GW2? These are questions that only you can answer. If the answer is yes to either, then by all means, have a great time getting your cool new armor. If the answer is no, then go do all the other fun things GW2 has to offer instead. If they're doing it right, then by the time ArenaNet adds items that are good enough to render what's currently available obsolete, they will come with an expansion, and again there will be a tier for us casuals that don't want to grind out that miniscule performance increase.

Gear grinds are primarily motivations for pve focused players. If they make it so the new gear has an impact on wvw then that'll be it for me. I have no intention of getting on the tread mill.

Right from the source: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/november-2012 :)

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/ Doesnt sound as bad as what people are making out. From what I can tell (by reading the link) Ascended items will essentially by exotics with the gems/jewel built into it (as well as giving the ability to add infusions) and a minor stat upgrade. It really does make sense though, exotics are too easy to get essentially removing entirely the main way players enhance their character in pve. Cosmetic upgrades are great and I love them but having something to work for is essential. I would like to see a cap placed in wvw so that someone with full exotic gear hits that cap and ascended gear gets descaled so that its the same as an exotic equivalent. But for now its just backpiece and rings that are being added as ascended so it will be a gradual thing and I am sure Anet will be keeping a close eye on things.

That's good news, Mezz. Thanks for the link. WvW is PvE micro-raiding. The point is to kill the NPC keep, tower, and supply lords. There are various challenges in the way, in the form of walls, doors, and siege equipment. There are other players to kill, but they're really just variably difficult trash mobs. Success in WvW does, and probably always will, boil down to a simple equation: more people + better gear = win. It's PvE, so this is not surprising. As such, of course gear changes will affect it. People with Ascended items will be 1% better than people with Exotics. As more Ascended items are introduced, that gap will grow, until ArenaNet decides to close the gap (usually with an expansion that puts everyone back on the same gear level). If gear disparity in PvP is really such a concern, might I suggest sPvP?

Yah, I can't possibly disagree more strenuously without becoming insulting. That method of progression is alright for a pve focused game something along the lines of WoW or Rift. For the manifesto they advocated as to their tenets of design for GW2 the whole idea of a gear treadmill goes against everything that they've advocated to this point. The reward of the game should be the playing. Not to see numbers tick higher. And as for WvW being PvE micro-raiding. That's a pretty narrow view and rather intensely... wrong.

I do find the Ascended gear concerning. I am not ready to throw in the towel, but it looks like they are compromising one of the key features of GW2. What I really do not understand is why someone who wants a game with a gear grind would play a game that advertises no gear grind, or why they would be surprised by the lack of a gear grind. It is not like it was a secret. A minimal amount research would have made that obvious. My biggest worry is that the grind they add will not be enough to appeal to the gear grind players, but it will be enough to alienate those who bought the game on the promise of no gear grind.

Personaly it all depends why you play . Back in my uber raid game days we used to raid 5 days a week 3 to 4 hours a day. always trying to kill the next new raid bosses or to farm gear off of them until the next expansion and the next new shiny gear . After doing that for 5 years and playing unguilded alts to avoid raids etc . i moved back to RVR games since i i got burned out grinding battle grounds and scenarios i won`t do spvp anymore . to be honest after 5 years of EQ 99-2004 all other games are ezmode as far as grinds go haha The only reason i`ll do pve grind for gear is to help me kill the enemy faster in RvR just like DAOC and farming darkness falls and farming Tomb of the Vulture King in Warhammer . so the only goal i have these days is killing people in RvR But yea new gear with slightly better stats isn`t that big of a deal until the next set comes out that is slightly better and so on etc. All games do this as they think they need to instill new sets to keep the players playing however i don`t need a gear grind to keep me playing as long as the rest of the game is fun .

That manifesto seems to be for a different game than GW2, as it's turned out. I'm gonna wait n see. Not gonna do a subscription MMO at this time.

If gear with the exact same stats isn't attainable through WvW and crafting they will have effectively shot down another of their top manifesto points, that you should be able to get the best gear by playing exactly how you want to play, be that as a gatherer/crafter or a purely pvp player. They advertised being able to level up and get full max stat geared purely in WvW or without ever attacking a mob, if these ascended pieces have higher stats than exotics and can't be crafted/bought with badges or honor without entering the dungeon that principal is broken. I'm not about to quit over this and will almost certainly grind gear if it comes to that, but I will forever take ANet's comments with a grain of salt because they supposedly spent a long time on that manifesto and then completely disregarded it not even 3 months after release.

Guys, let's stop crying over pixels. Who cares if someone has some ooo shinny gear. I certainly don't. I stepped onto wvw at level 2 and did not leave till 80. I still have not set foot in a zone over level 40. Am I gimp? Not at all. You see me kitting all over the place playing last man standing in the blue circle. Gear != Skill Remember memories last longer than pixels. Friendships are loot you can bring with you after you leave the game. Let's move past this and look forward to some new advetures.

This post makes an excellent point (warning: language) http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1348bd/ascended_gear_or_how_i_learned_to_stop_worrying/ Ascended gear is just the armor equivalent of Legendary weapons, which we already know to be little more than fancy skins with cool glow effects. In terms of stats, the difference is negligible - 8% on the ring Linsey Murdock revealed. This is not even a full quality level (Fine to Masterwork, Masterwork to Rare, and Rare to Exotic fall in the 12-20% range, depending on item) increase. At this rate, even with 2 Ascended rings and the Ascended back item, it's less than a 1% increase to your character's overall stats. But wait! The future is filled with Ascended items! Eventually we'll see entire squads (50 people) of Ascended-clad enemies in WvW. Assuming that all Ascended items are 8% better than their Exotic equivalent, then it follows that a fully Ascended squad has 8% more stats than a fully Exotic one. The Exotic squad would have to bring a whopping 4 extra people to fully offset the difference in stats. This is hardly game-breaking. Going off topic... > And as for WvW being PvE micro-raiding. That's a pretty narrow view and rather intensely... wrong. How so? I would contend that the commanders are engaged in some pretty intense PvP, like a grand high-speed chess match. The rest of us are simply their weapons. The massive zerg tactics so popular among all of our match ups completely obviate the need for any skill in fighting players (a fact for which I am profoundly glad). When we hit the battle field, we don't hunt players - indeed, it's somewhat rare that we find an enemy zerg at all - we hunt the NPCs in charge of the supply camps, towers, and keeps. Occasionally, enemy players will get in the way of that, and we engage them exactly as we would any group of difficult NPCs, by breaking their front line and AoEing them down. The enemy could just as easily be a single Ranger with 60 Veteran pets. It's a lot like Alterac Valley in WoW. Sure, there are other players around, but fighting them is a waste of time unless they're between you and the big raid boss you have to kill to win. I really enjoy WvW, but the killing players portion of it, while usually fun, is kind of pointless, so it's not really PvP.

I maintain that your point of view is narrow.

Enough. =) Go play the game now. Or as my mom would say, "Kids, go out and play in traffic." ;)

Relax, Briseadh, I'm not baiting any bears. Fighting with e-people (out of game, anyway) is inefficient and ineffective. Not my style :) I was just trying to have a discussion, and hopefully understand another point of view. It doesn't look like that's going to happen, so I guess that's that.

In all reality as far as the WvWvW thing goes it is the same as every battle in history , there are two lines of thought when it come too stragey . What matters is what is the goal ? is it to fight your enemy head on and try to win by outlasting the enemy and taking the objective ie a chess match . trading kills to achieve the main objective . Or is the goal to win by taking key objectives using misdirection, deception, diversion tactics , hit and run tactics avoiding full on engaments unless it servers the bigger picture, ie draw the enemy to 1 location and kep him busy fighting over 1 target while a smaller force captures the real target . Both ways can work , however the second method tends to have better results . This game of WvWvW is about controlling key objectives and it point based , killing the enemy isn`t that important , taking objectives to achieve points is . having 2 or 3 groups acting as a rear guard unit recaping our backlines , repairing walls , gates killing their raid groups is important , this is something that we don`t need to set up and something pugs should be doing , but after years of RvR i know that common sense and hoping pugs do what you want will never happen . Then you need 2 or 3 groups using hit and run tactics in the enemy back lines disrupting their supply killing caravans, sentries , hitting a tower now and then as a diversion etc to cause them to split forces . then you have 2 main attack groups semi large pugs can do this with 1 of our commandeer leading as pugs will normaly follow to attack a false target drawing the defenders to that area , it needs to be large enough to be seen as a real attack . the second group is the real attack group it can be small like 3 groups strong, and used t0 capture the main target after the false attack group has been fighting for several min to assure most of the enemy is moving to defend and it out of postion to respond. you don`t want a commandeer icon active with the real attack group . Since this game is about point values and capting objectives for points it doesn`t matter if you outnumber the enemy or not as long as you can split up, confuse and capture targets to gain points holding it doesn`t matter as you time it to capture before timer tallys points , get the points and move on . if you hold it great . if not no matter you can take something else before point tally again . if it wasn`t point based but total victory then you could try to out kill them , but since it is point based and you only get points when it times out and tallys them up. every few min , a diff strat may work better. kinda like what sea of sorrows has been doing all week , taking stuff and using diversion tactics to take a target right before points are added , too get the points then letting us retake it and getting nothing as points have been added already .

For a person who spends the entire war doing nothing but peeling potatoes, their point of view is relegated to just peeling those darn potatoes.

» Edited on: 2012-11-14 14:22:38

TenTonHammer posted a good article regarding the "cautionary skeptic's" point of view on this topic: http://guildwars2hub.com/features/editorials/honest-discussion-about-ascended-gear edit: (sorry I don't know how to make it a clicky)

» Edited on: 2012-11-14 17:13:22

Hey guys, just to jump in a bit here, and perhaps settle some nerves... This Ascended gear is not some kind of crazy stuff that is going to upset the balance of the game. As previously mentioned, there is a VERY small increase in stats from Exotics. It looks like a lot at first glance, because they bulk the base stats and the 'customization slot' stats together. So if you add your base exotic gear with your exotic Gear Upgrade item, you come almost to where the Ascended gear is anyway. The difference comes in with the new customization slot (I forget what they call it). The thing is, this slot will have stats which will only be useful under certain situations. To elaborate, there is a Condition which will be applied to players in the new Dungeon, called Agony. This condition gets increasingly more damaging as the Dungeon difficulty increases, and at a certain point, a new stat (lets call it Resistance for now) becomes necessary to offset this unique form of damage (not encountered elsewhere in the game). So, while you will have *more* stats, only a VERY small percentage of that increase is useable globally; the rest is only useful for specific purposes, such as advancing further in the Fractals of the Mist (or whatever its called). I found all of this info on the GW2 site, top two News items on the main page. Hope it helps! - Ral