Voice communication

This is not a debate or anything, just a suggestion that should be considered and be done.

When Gaiscioch hosts any WvW events or groups, GSCH should have at least the commander of the group to go on TS3 and Raidcall 5012 to be able to communicate with everyone.

See my post on sor. I would prefer you discuss family matters here and not throw them on the community site. Expecially so soon after that very topic caused an all out rift in the community. I know you don't understand the full details of it but your pouring gas on a fire. Quite honstly I've done multi voice comm at the same time in the past and it brought more frustration and confusion that it eliviated. I am just not able to use multiple voice comms and keep the event fun for people. The teamspeak is all about win win win go mother fin win. The raidcall is about having fun, laughing, and makin new friends. My win win win days died with me long ago. Id rather have a good fight and do my best and come out of it with some new friends. I don't need the chest thumping testosterone fest you find on "zerodrama"

I personally agree with Fog. It is tough enough for our leaders to get everyone moving when we are in one channel - to have them speaking in two (and then what - 3 channels for those that prefer Vent) is way too hard. It's not just giving commands - but listen in to our channel and hear all the voices chattering away... "This door is going down!" "They are coming over the Bridge" "They are at the supply camp" "Group of 10 coming up behind you!" and then put all those comments in the leaders ear from another communication source. It won't be pleasant for the leader and then there would be the times that half of us are only getting half the story where the leader is getting it all... giving us directions and half of us are wondering "Why we doing that?" and either he/she takes the time to explain or he/she just leaves us questioning his/her directions. It would be horrendous in my opinion. I do understand where you are coming from - yet we have clearly stated we use RC for numerous reasons - it is a free VC and anyone can download it... (if I can use it - anyone can) So everyone is free to join our community events and listen in - apparently even the enemy at times. We aren't trying to rule the world - just have fun. I must say, that I enjoy our events and I don't want anymore stress on our event leaders - I want them to stick around for a long time. If leading the event starts to "be a job" - I fear they won't. jmho

I agree with the saying "jack of all trades, master of none". It is better to do what we do well, and invite the community to come and take part, than to try and do everything, and thereby dilute our main family event nights by trying to coordinate on too many levels. Gaiscioch is about community, but I think that would be pushing it a bit too far. Our WvW leaders talk to other commanders as it is, and do a great job. Consolidation, and doing what we do well, so that is fun for our members and whoever else wants to tag along, should be our primary objective. Anything else just spreads the leader too thin and new headaches and obstacles arise. While I am on the subject, thanks to all our WvW leaders for doing such a fantastic job :)

I would not be in favor of restricting leadership of Events to just those willing to be in and respond to multiple voice chats at the same time. More event leaders = more events = more fun. More restrictions on event leaders = more stress = less event leaders. Less event leaders = less events = less fun. My favorite WvW event is Club Gaiscioch.

I think it should be up to the leader to choose which voip they want to use. WvW especially tends to get a lot of armchair quarterbacks.

Hmm. So simple an idea, but I'm not sure you understood the implications of that. We are a community in the first place. As loose and encompassing of diverse play styles, we are a community. As such, a modicum of uniformity in our communication systems is necessary, lest we don't communicate at all. That's the community-first side of the story. The individual adapts for the betterment of the community. The other side of the coin is, of course, the individual side of it: "We are a loose community, and I can run what I want the way I want it. People should follow suit if they want to run with me." That's just fine. Of course, there's always the risk of people not following you at all. - - - - - - - - - - For my part I still have Vent and Mumble installed, since I used them with my old WoW and Rift guilds. RaidCall was an unexpected choice for me at first. However, it was clear from the start it was not about me, rather about the community, so I delayed not in installing and configuring RC. Even though I can run many voicecomms at the same time, the less "tech savvy" guildies tend to run only one. Why I won't install TS? Well... I have nothing against it. But why would I care to chat with a group that started off with a lot of drama and entitles themselves as "zerodrama"? Nah. I'd stick to RC.

You could say the same thing about people who go to wvw on low-level, unequipped characters. It's wvw - by the devs not meant to be balanced, open to all, like open-swim. There's even jumping puzzles and vistas and whatnot. Feels like people trying to swim laps, getting grumpy while others are playing marco-polo. If you want to choose your team, and dictate how people play, what voip to use, play tpvp.

» Edited on: 2012-11-06 09:29:24

Replicant, how does having 2 different armies from 2 different locations who you have no clue who is talking when benifit the whole. Inc south! Us or them. There no wall in the back us or them. Hey did you see the giants beatthe tigerswhile one of your own quietly said inc south. This amount of confusion gets entire raids wiped. Its like trying to listen to 100 raidios at the same time and trying to figure out which one is playing a certain song. Its a whole lot of noise and one hell of a headache. Trust me. Telara saga we tried this. Did not g so well ended up ticking off a lot of the leaders and gave meone hell of a headache. Tell you what. Ill stop leading when people stop following. You don't like the way I do it then don't come out. Period. When enough feel as you do then nobody will follow me and ill stop leading. But until then I'm going to do what I'm good at and were gonna have a blast doing it. As a family. I don't know where you read were a hard core guild. If that's what your looking for you might wanna go join tempest wolves. Their hands down one of the best pvp guilds around. That might be more your playstyle. We are a "casual social gaming community" were not going to give you the same result.

"With a strong focus on community our endgame goal is to create memories, friendships, and participate in the overall success of the community. It is through gaming, athletic competition, and social interaction that we forge new friendships and relationships." Assuming that everyone that signs onto Teamspeak is only concerned with winning and is going to be a jerk does us a great disservice and stands directly in the way of us accomplishing our stated mission, which I quoted above. I've spent two full days on Teamspeak to evaluate our position on this issue and we are simply wrong. I can understand that you don't have the patience to deal with coordinating and I respect that. I don't have the patience to deal with all of the crap you deal with. That is why I outsource my crap to the guild leadership. We have what, like 1500 people in the guild now? Find someone to do community outreach and coordinate for the guild. "Tell you what. Ill stop leading when people stop following. You don't like the way I do it then don't come out. Period. When enough feel as you do then nobody will follow me and ill stop leading. But until then I'm going to do what I'm good at and were gonna have a blast doing it. As a family. I don't know where you read were a hard core guild. If that's what your looking for you might wanna go join tempest wolves. Their hands down one of the best pvp guilds around. That might be more your playstyle. We are a "casual social gaming community" were not going to give you the same result." We aren't a hardcore guild but we aren't a personality cult either. If we disagree with our stance on this issue, which we are totally wrong about, should those that rightfully disagree, because we are wrong, not show up to events that you lead personally or just quit Gaiscioch? I ask only because that seems to be the message you are conveying and the line in the sand that you are drawing. A large number of people following you in events doesn't automatically make you right on every issue or lend you even a shred of moral superiority. This is coming from a guy that likes you and is a fan of your work. I don't know if this is stress or what's going on man but if you need help with stuff in-game or out of game stuff because there is too much to do with this guild you need to ask for more help; everyone, whether they are an officer or not, is willing to lend a hand with or without a title. I remember playing with you in Warhammer Online and you were just a chill dude that was always upbeat and positive no matter what.

» Edited on: 2012-11-06 09:37:22

Solvarn, in warhammer you know what made me a chill dude? Not caring what the "Elitists" thought of us or my leadership ability. Do you not remember errorist, or Gojiberries. They eternally talked trash about us. But I kept leading with a smile on my face and did what I do anyways. It's the same thing here. Let me put it another way Solvarn, I get approached by one of the "ZeroDrama" crew and they totally come at it saying yeah we should just have a vote you have more than enough people to skew the vote and the whole thing will be done with and we can all go raidcall and tbey can't argue. I told him it would be a bad idea but he spent the better part of an hour pleading his case and finally I caved it and did it. He told me to contact every Gaiscioch and get them to vote in favor of RaidCall. I did so. My mistake. Right after I did so he then turned the tide and pitched the opposite message to the community. Not only that but while he thought he muted RaidCall and he was talking to his friends on teamspeak he said "Yeah the tool did it, gnash is going to mass vote raidcall." Right after that he posted on the forums pitching me as some tyrant. I put faith in the people of the "Nodrama" team and what did i get. I got setup and they tried to not only character assassinate me and discredit us but they attacked our family. So yes i'm a bit bitter when it comes to these people. I don't enjoy putting faith in people to get burned. Why should I go listen to a word they have to say when the whole time they conspired to set me and the Gaiscioch up? You don't believe what im saying Ask Jexia, she was in room with me when he was talking to his friend. He pitched a great story to me, but told another story to his friends. I want to go back to the chill dude, and to do that I need to not worry about the trolls that are hell bent on destroying everything we have built.

How many of us were taking keeps and defending relics in RvR BEFORE vent or TS even existed? My point is that VOIP can be helpful, but not necessary. A few days ago, I was in a borderland with Jexia and about 15 other GSCH. We were using the community RC everyone else was using TS. We took some supply points, sieged some towers, and helped the main zerg defend garrison. We contributed to the effort and even had fun in RC while we did it. If someone wants to jump on TS, awesome! Have fun! If someone doesn't want to, awesome! Have fun! If someone doesn't want to be in any voip and rock out to some Drowning Pool while eradicating enemy invaders, awesome! Have Fun! Thats just my opinion...

Just want everybody to remember we are still family even in disagreements. Tone and intention don't translate well into the written word so always try and give the opposite family member the benefit of the doubt when you are "hurt" by words. I have my own views but it is the leadership that runs the guild. I will HAPPILY adhere to those rules and support our leadership, even when those choices are contrary to my own views here in game. They don't prohibit anybody from joining team speak so i can listen if i want or not listen if i want. Its all good. :)) keep your heads up amigos.

I"m going to chime in for my coppers. I've been avoiding WvW because I am getting a very elitist vibe from the posts and comments. Very quickly after the game launched the vibe has been "If you don't know what you're doing, stay out". Ummmm...when exactly are we supposed to learn? And now there's a huge rift. I'll go into the WvW zones when Fog leads, and I have a couple times. Our family doesn't exclude people, and I'm slowly learning. Guess why? Because he's chill and we have fun. Because he gets the concept that this is a video game and what most people do to unwind, not stress. Because our family understands that just because some players have slower machines, poor connections, limited playtime or limited skill in general it doesn't make them "less than."

Guys, I happened to be in the channel with Ben the day all that came down. It went down as Ben stated, I was there I heard it, we got backstabbed bye a pro. Let them have TS. Spartan last night tried to use TS to co-ord with the other commanders. Long story short. Didnt work period. @Twilah, all our commanders are very patient people and dont have a problem with newer folks coming out. OMG Twilah, I was one of the worst ever finding my way around. You are certainly welcome to join any of us anytime and just have a ball out there.

Everyone on the server has been invited to RC 5012. It's free and open for everyone to use. Fog set it up specifically so that the SoR community would have a unified voice communication channel. All GSCH community events that I've attended recently have been held exclusively on RC 5012, including last night's WvW, when Spartan asked us all to move from 1101 to 5012 for the start of his event. Everyone who uses TS knows exactly where we are, and how to get in touch with our commanders. If they refuse to, then that's their problem, not ours. I've sat in TS several times and listened to those super elite commanders do their oh-so-valuable coordination. Honestly, they're not worth the paper they're printed on. What little (largely accidental) value they may add is absolutely not worth asking our commanders to sit in two voice channels at once.

I figure if anyone wants to use multiple voice comms for leading then they can do so themselves by posting an event and leading it. I would like to discourage pressuring our current leaders out there in WvW to make life for themselves even more complicated. I would much rather have "chill" leaders doing it the way they like (and maybe actually having some fun!).............than no leaders at all. I am in a period of my life where I would rather follow, and I appreciate the people willing to lead (and yes I know it can be stressful).

Having been the leader of a rather large guild in a previous mmo I can tell you that it takes a lot of time, thought, and decision making (a lot). Like Gaiscioch we also felt as a family and 13 years later some of us are still very good friends though we've never even met in person. I have also been an officer in about four guilds (in differant games) since. Being leader is a lot more work than being an officer or a member. Decisions made are going to be unpopular with some of the members especially with a guild as large as this. Whatever the decision it should be respected though. This person has taken the time to study out, and probablly a whole lot of thinking was put into, making said decision. If they don't do this, they probablly end up with a guild of like 5 people. Obviouslly not the case here. As far as I am concerned, its hard enough trying to listen to one commander, on one channel, when you also have to listen to what color someone likes, what they had for dinner, etc., and also listening to reports of enemy activity from numerous people. Now add more channels? Also having differant groups on differant channels, services, etc. might make it a little harder on spies too. The decision that has been made is the right one for me. I'm glad to have a leader like Foghladha and will respect his decisions no matter my personal feelings. At this stage of my life I just want to play and have fun and not have the responsabillity of such a large group of people to think about with whatever decision I have to make. If I ever feel differantlly about either, I will leave Gaiscioch and if so inclined form my own guild so I can rememer how easy that is to do. Oh btw we didn't have ANY voice 13 yrs ago, and we did just fine. Regards, Gjindaan

» Edited on: 2012-11-06 12:17:25

"A great Empire is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within." from the Fall of the Roman Empire. Let's not tear each other apart over this. All you have to do is watch the turns on the battlefields when Fog, Spartan and our other leaders are working. Our territory holdings always increase. There are no great leaders without great followers and our family is great because we will follow, take advice, and learn. I don't believe our leaders are wrong about this. As I stated earlier not everyone uses RC, or TS, or Vent... We are "hosting" a ommunity event. We ask people to join us if they want. RC is free. If I can DL and install it so could almost anyone - especially if they have DLed another VC program. We never state "Gaiscioch is taking over WvWvW... join us or get out of the way!" We are doing an event and cordially inviting anyone who wishes to join us. We do this because so many people asked to join us on our romps - in WvWvW and in PvE. But we aren't trying to be all things.... to all people. If we try to be all things to all people we will quickly decline into being nothing to anyone. Many guilds end up like this. And I for one do believe that if you don't like the way a guild is run then yes, by all means, find one more to your liking and this is all Fog is saying. None of our leaders have stated that we can't express our opinions and discuss things. But once a decision is made and it is stated that the decision is final... well, it can only go so far before it is no longer "constructive" - but "destructive". Last night Spartan attempted contact with the other "commanders" - and if you listened to him, he stated that they wanted him to do things "their" way. It's not that he wasn't communicating. He stated that he, Spartan, wasn't going to be part of a massive zerg with everyone following 4 commander icons running all over the map. He doesn't work like that. I, Morigana, am really happy that he doesn't work that way.

"Solvarn, in warhammer you know what made me a chill dude? Not caring what the "Elitists" thought of us or my leadership ability. Do you not remember errorist, or Gojiberries. They eternally talked trash about us. But I kept leading with a smile on my face and did what I do anyways. It's the same thing here. Let me put it another way Solvarn, I get approached by one of the "ZeroDrama" crew and they totally come at it saying yeah we should just have a vote you have more than enough people to skew the vote and the whole thing will be done with and we can all go raidcall and tbey can't argue. I told him it would be a bad idea but he spent the better part of an hour pleading his case and finally I caved it and did it. He told me to contact every Gaiscioch and get them to vote in favor of RaidCall. I did so. My mistake. Right after I did so he then turned the tide and pitched the opposite message to the community. Not only that but while he thought he muted RaidCall and he was talking to his friends on teamspeak he said "Yeah the tool did it, gnash is going to mass vote raidcall." Right after that he posted on the forums pitching me as some tyrant. I put faith in the people of the "Nodrama" team and what did i get. I got setup and they tried to not only character assassinate me and discredit us but they attacked our family. So yes i'm a bit bitter when it comes to these people. I don't enjoy putting faith in people to get burned. Why should I go listen to a word they have to say when the whole time they conspired to set me and the Gaiscioch up? You don't believe what im saying Ask Jexia, she was in room with me when he was talking to his friend. He pitched a great story to me, but told another story to his friends. I want to go back to the chill dude, and to do that I need to not worry about the trolls that are hell bent on destroying everything we have built." I know the whole story. I know you are justifiably pissed; I'm not disputing that. I don't really think that anyone is specifically focusing on destroying the guild I just think the attacks were focused character assassination at you personally for reasons I have mentioned in previous posts. I'm not excusing their leader's behavior. I don't think at this point we need to ally or deal with each other a whole lot. Even North Korea has a phone at the DMZ. They don't use it that much but it's there. I think we should be the bigger people and try to at least coordinate on a basic level since it takes so little effort. We don't need to ask permission to do what we are going to do on any given night but we can start by letting folks know and stay in touch and see if something grows out of that. We can take the low road and say it's a game all day and just /ignore people that piss us off. A lot of people do that on a personal level and that's great. It won't affect me one bit I'll be in both chats to keep up to date on what's going on. As a guild however our mission isn't to ignore people that piss us off it's to build a community. Like it or not these are the people we are stuck with on this server. It's easy to be friendly and welcoming and inviting to people that are friendly and inviting and welcoming back to us. It's the times that we deal with people that don't share our values that they are the most tested. In regard to the few comments I see above regarding voice chat I'm not sure it's even debatable at this point that it's a tremendous advantage that everyone we fight will be using. Not using it worked years ago because we didn't have it and it was an even playing field; I led relic raids entirely by chat. Those days are long gone. This game is really twitchy, I play a class that dies if I get hit just a few times; I am so busy evading I don't read my chat during a battle because if I do I'll die, simple as that. So I don't think that just abandoning voice chat is really a viable option.

» Edited on: 2012-11-06 13:10:14

A couple things I really like about Gaiscioch It's never jealous. If you want to raid (or whatever), go join a raiding guild -- we'll happily take you back if you want to return. It's not a democracy. It's led with vision and principles. "Swords out, not in," get on with the fun stuff.

Hmm... I don't and won't play with a**holes. I think we're putting too much emphasis on being the bigger man or the shining example here. This is a far cry from what made Gaiscioch what it is today. We just play. Forget TS and for that matter, forget there's been any drama here. Gaiscioch grew up by having events on the regular that were fun and inclusive. People, like myself, would see the Gaiscioch groups/warbands running around, communicating, and just plain being friendly. Victory wasn't assured, but a comfortable welcoming atmosphere was provided. People would ask to hang with us and get to know us, then they would join us. The "community" events are and always have been Gaiscioch events advertised to our friends and foes alike. Personally we need to stop trying to establish or pacify any kind of "community". We are a community. I'm never going to roll over and placate some anonymous Internet d*ckhead. To try to convince me otherwise just shows your lack of conviction. Granted now we've grown bigger than our name and the tree is so tall we can't see the roots from the roof. But seriously, go out have fun, stop trying to change the game. Lol I will not now nor ever bow down or play nice with the kind of people that get a kick out of these shenanigans. Why should I? I've got the Gaiscioch. And what this handful of people are gong to try to dictate how best to use our forces? You must have list your mind. I take my orders from Foghlada and my loyaltys lie within these halls he's built. Lol, this is so beyond need for discussion at this point. If someone wants to be the go between or the communicator, that's fine, play how you want. Don't expect me to listen to a single word from outside Gaiscioch, that's the beauty of it, I don't have to.

1) "even North Korea has a phone at the DMZ" Gee even Gaiscioch has set up a channel names Sanctum of Rall (GW2). As far as I know anyone can join their. Their choice. They want teamspeak or whatever. Fine. But no one said they can't come over here either so the North Korea point seems moot. 2) We did reach out and invite everyone to join us didn't we? Isn't that where this whole fiasco started? 3) No one said that we could be successful at this time without voicechat of some sort. Of course we need it but one channel is enough. Do you really think if we went to TS or whatever, that the whole server will go there. What a fantasy. Probablly the same people or at least similar ones, would go somewhere else. Anyways seems the chat comments that where made went right over your head. 4) As has been stated, I have never yet been in any WvWvW event that we haven't gained territory. We must be doing something right. 5) In my opinion Morigana and Mulch hit the nail on the head. 6) I am not the best PvPer by far. As a matter of fact at my age with my reaction time, in any one on one im probably the dead guy. I do not have any toon at level 80 yet. I'de rather enjoy the content of a game and not race to the top level of a game. I have a bunch of alts tho. I have taken these toons into WvWvW many times and in group fighting I do as well as the next guy. I havent gotten one complaint from either a leader or another player yet. Don't be afraid to come out to WvWvW at any level. You will be ok and learn the ropes without getting ganked every two minutes.

You know after hearing about this whole ordeal Fog was put through I'm gonna go ahead and say never. I will never support the ******** that would attempt to smear a man who has worked tirelessly and gave selflessly to thousands of people. If anyone in Gaiscioch chooses to ignore that situation, that's fine, but I personally think those people don't deserve the title Gaiscioch. I don't know I guess family means to me that if you insult my brother I'm breaking your jaw. To support these clowns on the basis of community is garbage. Just spineless selfish garbage. And yes I'm really holding back the curse words. For the family.

» Edited on: 2012-11-06 14:47:40

Think im going to lock this thread down now. Lets let this conversation die.