How important is three faction combat and how much will it impact the market?

It seems to me there is nothing holding Arenanet back from cornering the market on WvW.

How many games have been doomed with PvP because of the inbalance between good and evil? Two faction systems fail. One side always gets bigger.

With the massive map they have, the seige weapons, the three faction combat, and the real excitement created by someone finally honoring the traditions of DAOC in spirit(so far) this game has a very good chance to be game of the year with WvW alone.

 I can't wait for this thing to start.

 What are your expectations? How big can this game be? What are the issues they have to be weary of that will lead to it's failure?

» Edited on: 2012-07-03 16:12:30

» Edited on: 2012-07-05 19:43:55

The best thing, as I see it, about Guild Wars 2 WvWvW combat is the prospect of rotating opponents and a tiered ladder. In WAR, if the opposing sides were mismatched, you just had to live with it until eventually the populations naturally shifted or hope your server was merged into another server with the opposite population issues. If servers are rematched every 2 weeks (or whatever time period Arenanet decide on), then players can have hope of a bad match-up being remedied in a relatively short time period, with a "do-over" always on the horizon. Periodically starting anew and facing down fresh opponents with new unseen tactics should keep WvWvW perpetually new and interesting as we constantly adapt to new opponents.

Wars end-game WvW was idiotic. If you took all the keeps and made it to the end, then suddenly you were in an confusing pve field in an instanced battle that made absolutely no sense to begin with. They're doing this right. You battle in WvW for the benefits it provides your server. You battle for ability to move up the tiered ladder and face the best. You battle for a score every two weeks that provides bragging rights for the victor. I think WvW has the potential to keep millions glued to the computer for years.

» Edited on: 2012-07-03 19:16:54

» Edited on: 2012-07-03 19:18:57

i can't wait for WvW combat in gw2. it will be the focus of my main toon. now, to figure out a class... necro looks promising...

DAOC got one thing VERY right. Have three sides. Boggles my mind no one has not copied that since. But there was one problem with that--the server balance could still stagnant and you did end up with servers being totally dominated by one overpowering side and/or two REALLY strong sides and one weak side that couldn't really contribute and/or never won. That's fixed with rotating servers every two weeks. Too awesome to describe. There's not enough descriptive words to show how excited I am for this set up.

So far I haven't been able to play WvW in BWE's. We are on Sifhalla and don't have anybody that even makes a WvW effort on that server: massively outnumbered and every time I've clicked on the WVW scoreboard one side(not ours) has every objective on every map. It's made it very difficult to get involved. Hopefully, I'll get to change that on the 20th, especially if I can get a transfer to the server all the guildies are on. I loved WvW in Warhammer and there were obvious shortcomings to their set-up from the very beginning. I think GW2 has the opportunity to finally build on what DAOC left hanging there: the best PVP system in MMO's.

The best part is, we aren't talking about three factions. We are all on the same side. And with a ladder system in place within a month, I would guess, you'll be going against servers of the same population or at least wvw participation. Skill and organization will play a big part but oys still going to be zergy....at least this way there shouldn't be too much of 'whoever has the biggest zeroing wins'. I'm also anxious to find out how much spur of the moment cooperation occurs between two sides to root the current king of the castle out of the middle.

I really like the idea that everyone on the same server is on the same team. Couple that with a lot of the other things they've fixed with many MMO's I've played and their onto something. People racing for the same node: fixed. Ninja looting: fixed. Boring quest mode and long return across the map to the quest giver: fixed. 2 faction imbalance: fixed. Ganking and griefing in the open world: fixed. Lack of physical objectives to fight over in PVP: fixed. 15 dollars a month: fixed. I love the innovative approach of Arenanet. It sounds like their development philosophy is going to provide a great atmosphere for gaming.

» Edited on: 2012-07-05 19:11:55

» Edited on: 2012-07-05 19:42:42

The only thing I worry about is lack of clear progression. I have a couple friends that stop playing games as soon as there are no gear up grades to strive for. While I personally am fine achievement hunting and just going for cosmetic progression, I wish there was pve only progression based gear that you got by grinding dungeons that would only be helpful in dungeons. I am also somewhat worried about lack of Bind on Account items and a global auction house trivializing the loot game. Oh well... after grinding so much in Diablo 3, I am actually looking forward to playing a game that doesn't involve grinding as a key development theme. That said, I guess I am completely off topic since I was responding tot he thread above. Responding to the OP, I am looking forward to WvWvW. I think the fact that PvP is skill based and not progression based, that servers are rebalanced for fairness every two weeks and that there are three teams competing will make WvWvW something I will be able to enjoy for years to come. I remember doing sieges in Shadowbane and they were amazing (even though the AOE system was broken).

I was a little unsure of how WvWvW would work until I read up on how ArenaNet is making it work. With limited players per battle area sides will hopefully be balanced (at least somewhat). ArenaNet has fixed a lot of issues with MMOs in GW2 (see RedHugh's post above). I noticed while playing TSW the decided lack of a faction in PvP *cough* Dragon *cough* hurts because FuSang the "open" area is just a tug of war between the Templars and Illuminati, until a Dragon player or 2 show up and people get distracted by the opportunity to beat on the green dudes. But, it appears that ArenaNet may have worked out a fix for this too with having limited numbers per side in the WvWvW areas. I'm just hoping there will be multiple instances of each WvWvW area so when Gaiscioch goes to war we don't lock everyone else on our server out until we're done. TL;DR Tired ramblings about how ArenaNet is doing a good job with GW2.

» Edited on: 2012-07-06 07:23:27

@ Jerich - with gear progression, I strongly suspect (or at least hope) that top end gear progression will be more horizontal than vertical - basically, instead of constantly looking for new gear that is more powerful, you are instead constantly looking for new gear that is equally powerful, but allows you new options. The end result being that rather than always striving for a single, most powerful gearset, you end up striving to collect multiple sets of weapons and armour for specific results. Initial Beta excursions seem to support this idea. My low level tailor was able to create at least 6 complete sets of armour that each focussed on specific stats. I can easily see myself wanting a full set of each type at endgame (and perhaps by endgame there will be even more than 6 craftable set types), in order to mix and match to whatever new build or strategy I want to try out. Then on top of that, there is the ability to customise your weapons/armour with transmutation stones - so if I want a specific look, I'll likely find myself specifically hunting down even more additional weapons and armour sets in order to customise the appearance of my endgame sets. I've no idea if the transmutation stones just copy the appearance of the weapon/armour, allowing you to keep it and then use it again to alter the appearance of another set, or if it merges the two armour pieces, forcing you to hunt down yet another to add the appearance to a second item. And then there will be the hunt for the right runes and gems to add to those armour and weapons (and jewellery) sets. And then on top of that, there will no doubt be alts, which will make me want to try and repeat the process all over again on another character. Seems there might be plenty to keep us occupied and hunting for that next piece, they have just (hopefully) removed the need to be constantly one gear set above your opponent to have an edge over them. Most people should all be max level with max level equipment within 6 months - which I'm really looking forward to. I'm never at the top of the levelling curve, so I've always been struggling for that next piece of armour in the hopes of just competing on equal terms - I love the idea of being equal to my opponents in a relatively short period of time, and just being able to concentrate on enjoying playing the game.