Help Wanted - Computer Builders

Hello computer builders, I'm seeking some advice. First of all, I am looking to upgrade my graphics card, and I'm curious what is better for gaming, 2GB DDR3 or 1GB DDR5. Gaming being things such as GW2.

Also, does it "work" to own a stock computer and slowly upgrade each component over time instead of straight guilding one from scratch? And if I put the effort into it, could I slowly buy all upgraded components then buy a new mobo, processor, case and toss everything into it?

I haven't built a computer in a long time, a while back I kinda gave up that route it always seemed to cost way to much. What I do now a days when I need a system is watch slickdeals.net for a deal. Like my current "gaming" system is a Dell XPS 8300 i7-2600, 8GB. I got it pretty much stock and can upgrade it further if need be. I threw in a GTS 250 and a better power supply. The 250 will be replaced with a 560Ti I think when prices drop a bit more and I can always throw in another 8GB of ram if needed. Think I paid $450 for it around X-mas time. My card being a bit older now has a 1GB of DDR3 if I remember correctly, and GW2 looks good, I don't have it quite pumped all the way up though. For gaming I'd actually say the faster ram is better but I haven't really looked into it very much, lol.

Hello Drigr, Let me start with the 2nd half of your question: Yes, that will work but you must take care when choosing a stock computer that it has some of the features you want or will want otherwise you're going to end up replacing about everything anyway. Does the motherboard handle the graphics card you want? Does it support the CPU you're planning on picking up? Does it do SLI if you'll want that in the future, etc. If you're going to replace the motherboard, CPU, memory and video card, you might as well just buy a case and start from the ground up. Though I didn't this last time, what I have typically done is something like this: I'll find a good motherboard online for a great price and buy it. Then repeat for memory and processor and possibly power supply, case and video card and at some point I throw them altogether. Unless there are major updates in PCI technology, typically you only need motherboard, memory and CPU before you can throw them in some case and get going on the new hardware. Some things to watch for which often gets overlooked (forgive me if you know these already): The PCI multiplier (currently x4, x8 and x16). Most of the video cards these days will do x16 and if your motherboard only supports x4 or x8, you're getting roughly a quarter or half the data transfer you could be getting. Memory speed support. 1333, 1600, etc. must obviously be supported by the motherboard. Higher speed in general means faster but even more critical is the CAS value on the memory you're buying. There are tons of great deals on RAM out there but few have good CAS values. Newegg is very good about listing what memory has what values. Keep that in mind when shopping around. I can show you studies where fast CAS values on slower RAM outperforms higher speed listed memory. Undeniably the i3/5/7's provide the best gaming results for your $. There are lots of other processors out there with more cores but the Intel i-series continues to rock the gaming world. Back to your first question, it really depends on your gaming. DDR speed is roughly raw speed but the amount of memory is how many textures the video card can throw down without having to swap out data. For single player I would probably recommend higher speed and less memory but for MMO's, particularly in WvW or busy areas like cities where your card is having to draw 100+ characters all with different gear on, I would have to recommend volume over speed. If you're going to invest in a video card, I would never recommend less than 2GB these days anyway. I would strongly urge you to let other people do the work and reap the rewards from their efforts. The author of these articles spends a great deal of time doing research and posts his results in clear, easy to follow, broken down by cost category and in easy to browse and read formats. There are other similar articles for CPU and others. Highly recommended for a builders: http://www.hardware-revolution.com/best-video-card-may-2012/ Good luck and feel free to PM me or email if you have more questions!

We do more basic builds here at work for the general public so not the most up to date when it comes to gaming rigs. as far as graphics cards go there is more factors to consider then just memory which can be deceiving between the different models and manufactures, probably the best source I have found is looking at the bench marking charts at a site like tomshardware. As far as upgrading, the graphics card and moving to a solid state hard drive are about the only individual upgrades you can do. the rest all revolve around the main board. making sure to keep the PSU wattage up mostly just worry about the rating the graphics card ask for and you'll be good unless you plan on a lot of drives or internal extras. A solid state hard drive will give on of the biggest performance increases across the board in everything you use the computer for. As far as the rest of it the RAM main board and CPU are pretty much a package purchase with as fast as those technologies change. Of the three the main board should be the one you try to go best as you can to start with because it will determine your limits on the rest of the computer so go big with it as much as possible. Sorry started to ramble there a bit so as far as upgrading a bit over time then the big leap with a new main board is possible just about anything can be used with the new board and case outside of CPU and RAM assuming your starting with a relatively recent computer (less then 5-6 yeaers old. Sorry if I wasn't the clearest, mostly just give people a price and options of what they need instead of explaining my thinking. Hope this helps a little.

Wanting other people to do the work is why I made this post. I was trying to compare an AMD R6770 and R6670 while I was at the store browsing, just to see if it was better to look at DDR5 in smaller amounts or DDR3 in higher ammounts ithanks for answering that, most of my single player is console anyways). The main reason I was looking at buying the case/mobo/processor last is because I was considering upgrading the graphics and sound cards, maxing the RAM, possibly throwing in a bluray drive, adding more fans, and upgrading the power supply to handle it all in my current rig, then buying the final pieces and moving it all over to a new case. My current rig (as in what its at while writing this) could be sold off or become a family computer around my house. Another question, I hear all this hype about solid state drives, do they live up to the hype? Also, what should I look for in one? While I was at best buy, I didn't see anything that had a big flashy SSD anywhere on the packaging, so I could even get an idea about them

From all of my experiences with them so far everyone we have installed one in has been amazed at how responsive the computer becomes. Personally one of the most telling factors as far as games went when I moved rift from a regular drive to the ssd my load times between zones became seconds down from 15-30. We had a accounting firm hear drop over $1000 dollars in them to upgrade their old dell dimensions that needed a sata to ide adapter to even see the drives because of the performance increase the got. So in my experience they make a huge difference. =)

I have done a large number of builds over the years - and just by way of adding some commentary to the great posts already. Some random commentary- - I found most upgrade existing boxes and moving everything over a hassle. It is done all the time but you have to be careful when removing and porting to a new box. Do you have sufficient room in your case? Some cases offer great opportunity to cut and slice you without notice ;). Also, careful of scratches and re-seating cables, RAM etc. - the power supplies in 'off the shelf' PC's units are almost always the bare minimum necessary for intended use only (at time of purchase. The large manufacturer's put 250, 300 and 350w PS's in their boxes to save money. When moving to a new box, don't be fooled into thinking your old PS will work with the new machine. - space in the case can be a real hassle to remove and re-add components - be careful when moving to a high horsepower graphics card hoping for max performance from an (older) antiquated processor. Example, a Ti6560 will be bottlenecked by a sub-standard dual core or quad core processor. Make sure your new components 'mate' well (a graphics card needs a worthy cpu and motherboard and RAM- or moderate your expectations. - Some vendor's to consider - Newegg.com (excellent prices and return policies) sign up for their newsletter for coupons/deals, read reviews from others who have completed builds with components you are interested in - their take is often quite useful. Ibuypower.com (allows almost complete customization of your machine), Pricewatch.com is (for low price vendors/comparisons) - For benchmarks - check http://www.cpubenchmark.net/ (CPU's and Video cards) - AMD's mb's, processors work quite well and save you a little money - There is always a sweet spot for each component - it is fool hardy to buy the most expensive video card or processor. In less than six months they drop 20-35%. Why pay that for 2 FPS. One, two, or three steps removed from the top end gives significant savings - eg. a GTX680 runs $500 at present while a a GTX670 will save you $100 and run at nearly identical http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html - Buy a good power supply, not just a 'high wattage' supply but a quality supply for a quality manufacturer. - I agree with the post about SSD's you can get a smaller but serviceable one at Newegg (onsale) for under $100 (120 gig) Good luck with it.

I was going to suggest looking at the website that built my rig, but the URL just goes to a wordpress site now, so maybe they are not in business any more. Anyway, you should be able to find something similar, I'm sure. I just chose the components I could afford at the time and they built it for me and shipped. That way I made sure I wasn't getting anything I didn't need and instead spent all the money on a decent gaming rig.

» Edited on: 2012-09-07 23:12:59

HERE is a link to my current rig. I was moving from a horrible 3 year old acer aspire laptop and doing it in a hurry with my tax return at the beginning of the year, so its a stock "gaming rig" from best buy. I've posted it on gaming sites before, and always get the same response, the stock video card isn't very good. It'll work, yes, but I only average about 20 FPS in MMOs, and yes, it drops with too large events. Since I did spend about $900 on it at the beginning of the year, I'm in no hurry to replace it. Hence why I was thinking of doing smaller upgrades one at a time, the main goal was to upgrade things when I have the spare cash to get a new piece.

» Edited on: 2012-09-08 00:24:07

Drigr - When looking at a new VId card - RAM is certainly a factor, but, the memory architecture is where the real business gets done. Dont buy a vid card with less than a 256bit memory interface. Period. Just Dont do it. I put a GTX550Ti Fermi w/192 Bit into Krislens computer, matched it with an i3 and 8gb System Ram - and she can run the game on Ultra with decent framerate. Some ticking happens in crowded areas like sanctum. For ~30$ More I could have put in a 560 w/256bit memory interface and experienced less ticking and more visual goodness. However, she only plays Rift and nothing else so this works. Looking at your current computer, you could drop a new vid card into it I think quite easily - but I dont see the PSU info :/ Like what a previous post said, most OTC vendors put the bare minimum PSU into the machine based on the machines specs/needs. If you overtax the OEM PSU you can do serious dmg to the Mobo/Vid etc. A "good" PSU will cost you nearly as much as your vid card, but clean consistent power is essential. So, from what I see - your system could handle a new Vid card and play Rift on High->Ultra settings with a GTX560ti and up, or the amd eqivalent, if you update the PSU as well. One thing to remember about swapping PSU's from the OEM: It used to be common practice (especially for Dell) to swap a few wires on their OEM PSU's/Motherboards. If you plugged in an aftermarket PSU to their board, OR used their PSU on a new board - you would fry the motherboard. Its worth the effort to investigate if the PSU/MOBO is Proprietary. After you up the Vid/PSU I would strongly consider a 128GB (or more) SSD. You will be amazed at the load speeds of the game, and just about anything else you do. Put the OS and your fav game or 2 on it - store everything else on that mechanical drive. I have an i5 2600k, 16GB Ram, 128GB SSD, GTX560ti (1GB), on an Asus Z77 board in a Raven 3 case with an 850W PSU. I can Run the game with everything checked in the visual options and all the siders to the right, in sanctum, in CQ - everywhere - and my load time between zones is ~5sec. As for sound cards - unless you are a serious audophile, and/or connect your computer to your HDTV for Movies and such, you wont notice THAT big of a difference from your onboard sound vs a card. In the past, onboard sound was "meh" and it was replaced with boards to reduce the strain on the CPU. CPU's now have so much power (high clocks and multiple cores) that Onboard sound is more than adequate for a majority of users. My Z77 has 7.1 sound onboard. Down the road, if you really wanna upgrade - heres what I do: I pick my budget. Usually ~650$ About every 1-1.5 years I start researching the mobo/cpu combos Like the previous poster stated, dont waste $$ on the "latest-n-greatest" Take a step or 2 down and save money I up the mobo/Cpu/RAM If the Vid card is dated, Ill research that. I keep the old DVD/HD's/Case/PSU etc I replace the Mobo/CPU/Ram (Vid Card) with the new stuff into my old case. Find a junk case from craigslist or something and frankenstein the old parts into something i can use. Ive been doing that for years, and currently, I have 4 desktops and a laptop that can run Rift well. All the HK Kill Vids Ive posted were done with my old system - AMD 3.0ghz quad core, 8 GB RAM, and a Ati 4800 series vid card. I will post some new vids, from GW and Rift later today as a comparison.

» Edited on: 2012-09-08 03:53:51

The PSU is pretty weak, 300w. I know that is something else I will probably need to upgrade, is there a way to check how much your current setup is running to see how much room there is to add before upgrading it? Also, on the topic of PSU, when buying a new case, does top or bottom mounted PSUs really matter, or is it merely a matter of preference?

If you are going to run a newer vid card, it will require its own power cable, usually 6 pins. A Good power supply will provide a cable dedicated for that vid card, some will have 2 cables (some cards require 2 power cables, or for Sli setups). In all honesty - if you grab a 550w+ power supply, from a reputable mfg (Antec is my personal fav) you will be fine. Even if you add a SDD, or another piece of Hardware later on. Unless you are running multiple HDD's, Multiple Vid Cards, Watercooling pumps, lights, sirens etc etc you dont need anything more than a 550w. I would say from experience that either the Antec 450 or 550 on the shelves at any Staples will suffice for what you need. Top and bottom mounted PSU's do matter. Many higher end PSU's will have multiple fans and you dont want a top mounted psu in a bottom mounted case. The fan will be blowing/drawing directly onto the bottom of the case - forcing hot air back into the psu and burning it up. The case you currently have, I suspect, is a top mounted PSU, the Antec PSU from Staples will work perfectly :) If you really really wanted to do the math - you can open your computer manual and find all the electronic specs as far as what each component draws for amperage and add it up, then look at the max amps your current psu can handle. I would guess that what you have running now vs the output of the psu is very close. Remember that with PSU's the "wattage" is a maximum output and not a true consistent output. You have to compare amperage. After you compare the numbers, look at the specs for the proposed vid card and add it to the equation. Your 300w PSU might power your system with a new card - But i would expect issues down the road, and sooner rather than later. Random Crashes, BSOD's, lockups etc. I would be equal to running a NHRA drag car on regular unleaded from the pump. (I know those Cars dont run on gasoline, but its a good analogy).

» Edited on: 2012-09-08 14:06:53

I mostly mean when building your own computer, though it is nice to be warned that the PSU is specifically mounted top or bottom, but I wanna know if, while getting the right PSU for the case, is it "better" to have it mounted on top or bottom? A question about SSDs. My computer came with Win7 preloaded on the 1.5 TB drive that it came with, so I don't have discs for reinstalling, how would I move the OS over to an SSD? And do you think a 450 or 550 would be sufficient for running my computer as is, with a new vid card, and adding an SSD (would still have my 1.5TB in for things like music and general storage.

Old style is power supply on the top. Newer is leaning toward power supplies on the bottom. The idea is to put a big fan on the top of the PC and have all the heat go out the top (since heat rises naturally anyway). I've never seen a bottom or top mounted Power Supply - as far as I know, you simply turn it over if it's going to be bottom mounted but could be wrong. A good 450 or 550 (Antec, OCZ or Cooler Master would be my recommendations) will handle just about everything unless you start doing very high end cards or dual video cards, etc. SSD's draw very little power in comparison to HDD's and that same 450 or 550 will handle it just fine.

Fraemos - you cant just flip a psu over as the placement of the screws wont align with the case holes. There are different PSU's with different fan placements on them (Ie Top only, Bottom Only, Bottom and back etc) Getting the OS off your old Drive and onto a SSD is relatively easy, I googled it and came up with many different ways to do it. I would use ghost in the past. The 450/550 will power your system easily.

Most bottom mounted power supplies will have a grill on the bottom of the case so the fan can draw in the air, the only real downside I've run into with that is if you are missing your feet or its sitting on carpet your air flow will be hindered so you just need to get something like a board under it for proper airflow. Here is a decent site to calculate power requirements for your componets. As far as moving to the ssd you should have a couple of options. If your computer didn't come with a disk most of the time you should have a program installed from the manufacture to allow you to create recovery disk, or you can order them from the manufacture (can be expensive for something you should of been given). The other option is most retail box ssd come with a cloning software to move your old windows onto the ssd. If the old drive is a Western Digital or Seagate you can get free cloning software from their websites.